Style & Vibes Podcast Ep. 2: Caribbean American Heritage with Kerry-Ann Reid-Brown

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Executive Produced by  Breadfruit Media

June Caribbean-American Heritage Month, in this episode Kerry-Ann Reid-Brown, of Carry on Friends Podcast and I talk about why the month is important and how we carry on important Jamaican cultural traditions through music, food and other activities.

This episode is sponsored by Callaloo Box a subscription box dedicated to Trini seasonings, condiments, hot pepper sauces & snacks.

Transcription Results:

We’re celebrating Caribbean American Heritage Month here on the Style and Vibes Podcast, episode two. My special guest today is Kerry-Ann Reid Brown, the founder of Carry on Friends Podcast. She is extended Style and Vibes fambily, and we’ve collaborated many of times before. Excuse us while we chat nuff, but keep it fun as we talk about celebrating our Caribbean heritage.

Mikelah: Welcome Kerry-Ann Reid-Brown of Carry on Friends.

Kerry-Ann: Bwoy, when you and yuh daughta use mi full name, I find it funny, but anyway, yes, thank you for having me, darling.

Mikelah: Kerry, you and I have a great working relationship. We’ve been kind of working together over the last few years. So this is definitely going to be an easy conversation as we are talking about Caribbean Heritage Month. Since this is happening during a key time for us, what do you think about people who are celebrating Caribbean heritage on a daily basis? Why would the month itself be important, especially for people like us who are kind of in the know and happening and that kind of stuff already? Why is this month important? Why do you think it’s important?

Kerry-Ann: So believe it or not, there’s a lot of contributions Caribbean Americans have made, not just on their local island country, but in the US and globally. It’s an opportunity to take that time to make that recognition that we’ve contributed so many of the Shirley Chisholm’s, the Harry Belafonte’s. And more contemporaneously, you have people, the Rihanna’s, the Nicki Minaj. There’s an opportunity to educate other people about our culture and to give that visibility. And also it is—we take for granted, you and I have, as we say Yankee pickney, and it’s also an opportunity for them to—with the additional festivities going on, so they could be more immersed because they take it for granted living in the house with us, but it is something that they can use to learn more about their culture and themselves. I think that being recognized is important as also part of—what’s the word I’m looking for, building community, because as much as it’s been around since what 2005, not many people know that it is a month, it is a thing. So there’s a lot more work to do around the recognition of the month, but it’s also knowing where else is having activities. I know being part of the month celebration activities, knowing what’s happening, I’m like there’s stuff going on in Vegas, and yes, I know Caribbean people all over, but you’re like, “Really? Dat much a unno out in Vegas? Dat unno have this whole thing going on?” I know it sounds a way, but when you’re over here in Brooklyn, the Mecca of the—or in New York area, it’s almost like—and I should know this because I lived in Wisconsin. Whenever people said, “Jamaicans are West Indians?” I’m like yes. Chicago is right there, so I know people are there, but it’s always this amazing feeling to discover like oh my God, there’s really a large population here or there, places you never think of. And so when you think of it that way, we’re spreading the culture even bigger and further out of the region than anyone could ever imagine. There’s a New York flair to Caribbean culture, and I’m sure there’s going to be a Vegas flair to Caribbean culture. So I think it’s important that as a month collectively, celebrate and recognize how different people in parts of the country are celebrating the month.

Mikelah: Yeah, because even I saw that there—I saw that there was a San Francisco Carnival, and it’s something I had never even heard of. So I was like yeah, we must be deep ova deh suh to. But I think it’s interesting to kind of—we bring our culture wherever we go. There’s different pockets, whether it be here in the US, in Canada, in Europe. It’s all over in Asia. They have all these different kind of the events. You’re having a carnival in Japan, those kinds of things. So I think the more we kind of space out, the diaspora becomes the ambassador to the region. So how do you think that the Caribbean region and its diaspora can kind of almost play off of each other in that sense?

Kerry-Ann: I mean I think they are already doing that now. I mean, Caribbean culture worldwide, it’s influencing a whole bunch of things. What you’re seeing is this integration of the culture. I think this is also the part where people kind of get concerned. There’s such an integration with the culture, that for instance, in Toronto, have my friends in Toronto—and no Robin, I’m not moving to Toronto. I love it, but it col’. Yeah, every time he’s like, “So when you moving to Canada?” But anyway, like for instance, Toronto, the culture is so much embedded and it’s mixed in and mashed in, that now it’s its so part of the Toronto culture that it’s like people tend to—that’s why the Drake’s and the Justin Bieber’s can do certain things, and even to an extent, The Wknd, can do and say and be certain things, and it’s almost like, I say well that’s kind of how they talk because it’s so embedded in that city and part of that culture. And so this is what’s happening worldwide. I think when you hear it like—I can mostly speak to Dancehall, not that I don’t listen to Soca, but when you hear—and this has always been the case of Dancehall artistes when they’re singing songs, they will big up Toronto and they will big up all of these places, because they know that when they travel to these cities, they’re getting influenced.

They’re observing how Jamaicans in New York or Caribbean people in New York or Caribbean people in Toronto or Caribbean people in Atlanta, they observe how people in different cities do different things. Some of that they take back with them. And so at some point, it’s just this natural bidirectional flow of influence and culture, that it gets sometimes very hard to see which way—like there’s some—probably things like why did Spice choose Atlanta versus New York. I’m sure that has to do with so many things that may be more aligned of where she was going. Yes, she’ll come visit New York. So I think that is how it’s already happening, a bidirectional influence of the culture from city, not just like US, but from a city to city perspective, from a country to country perspective. I have inside knowledge of the future interviews coming up, so a future guest kind of alluded to this based on the future—the performance and where is better. That I think is more indicative of how the culture is carried and what they prefer.

Mikelah: So do you think that the kind of integration is watered down or is it just evolving?

Kerry-Ann: It’s evolving and it’s different. The same way we can say I like roti or jerk chicken from dis a shop here versus dat deh shop. That’s kind of really what it feels like to me. It’s different based on who is serving it. It’s not that it’s bad or it’s good, it’s just a different flavor.

Mikelah: I like that. I like that a lot. So in terms of the next generation, I was born here, both my parents are of Caribbean descent, born in Jamaica. Ethan is growing up in that same—will grow up with that same mentality, Sanai will grow up with that same—and these are our kids, sorry. So in terms of taking that into the next generation and them having that same care and respect for the cultural contributions, what do you think that—how will that evolve and how will we keep them engaged on a regular basis like how we were, or at least how I was coming up?

Kerry-Ann: So I can say this, for me and you, music is life. For real though, music is life.

Mikelah: Dancehall a mi everyting.

Kerry-Ann: Listen. Before wi go pan di call, I was ready fi draw di Admiral Bailey back fi vibes up di call. Anyway, music is life. The first connection to culture is music. As you know, I just have mi likkle tree month ol’, and a sing and a play music. Not dat mi can sing, but yuh supposed to do all a these things. In addition to language, music is the next exposer my kids have. So my daughter, she nuh really in a di culture like dat, but she gets back around it. I remember she had liked the Bobby Brown, Damian Marley “Beautiful”, an’ she like di Etana “Warrior Love”, because I was singing it. She hear certain things, but then at one point, she had her Drake phase. And so she comes back around the culture that way because Drake a call people chargie and all dat. So she comes back around that way. Whereas, my Ethan, my danca, everybody a nuh danca but my Ethan a danca. Ethan, I don’t know what was happening, and one day we were watching a video because Ethan loves to dance. Ethan dance everyweh. Ethan dance to di fridge. Ethan dance to di bath…

Mikelah: “Ravers weh do dem” mi call him.

Kerry-Ann: So yes, Ethan Ravers is his name now. I don’t remember what happened. I honestly don’t remember what happened, but we were watching the BBC 1Xtra performance or special with Ding Dong and Ravers, and Ethan saw it, my gosh, now that thing is our repeat in my house because Ethan studied it. Ethan watches all a Ding Dong videos. Oh, I know how it started. So it was through Boys’, Girls’ Champ situation. You know how Jamaicans go crazy for the running. It was Calabar again took Boys’ Champs and there was this whole flash mob type dance. They were dancing to “Dweet”, Ding Dong and Ravers dance dem. Ethan was just like, “Let me see it.” He was watching it. So because he wanted to watch it and the clip was about maybe a minute, I had to find an extended version because he wanted to watch it. I knew what he was seeing was only a portion of that song or the dance. So that’s how he came up on the BBC 1Xtra video, which I love that programming anyway because they—the one with Koffee and Chronixx, the ones with Lieutenant Stitchie—that whole program, mi love it. And so Ethan now has found all of Ding Dong video dem and Ethan practices all a di dancing. Until recently, his school had like—so he was at school—mi share di video wid yuh Mikelah. So I’ve recorded videos of Ethan doing his fling for everybody. He recently did a performance at school, he was part of a performance at school, and Ethan was adding Ding Dong swag, “Wul Up” in the whole thing. Hear my husband, “Yuh see weh yuh start?” And I’m like, “Lowe him. After all, him nuh supposed to know him culture.”

So music, dancing by extension is just kind of how our kids will get involved. And that’s part of why I love the clean version of songs because back in a di days a couldn’t—there’s no way. That’s part of why Ariel, my daughter, isn’t as—she doesn’t gravitate to the music as much because when she was growing up, there weren’t specific clean versions of songs the way—not like over here where HOT 97 or whichever one of these radio stations bleep out songs. In Jamaica specifically, there has to be a cleaner version to the song where there’s no beeps or bleeps in it. So she came up in a time where there weren’t really many songs that I could play that were clean that she would say, “Oh okay, I know this song.” My son, Ethan, has that privilege. So we can drive in the car and play certain songs. Back in the day, mi coulda drive in a di cyar an’ wi deh sing… an’ wateva, but as soon as di pickney come in a di cyar, yuh affi tun off music cause it wasn’t appropriate. Now the benefit of having this type of music now, Ethan can sing it. Are there some adult language in there? Yes, but him too young fi undastan’. The same way we were too young to undastan’ when Little Lenny was singing all sort a song or certain song. When you look back and yuh seh really and truly a dat mi wen a sing. So for him it’s just really music and they see it part of pop culture now. So now it’s almost like, “Well, oh yeah, my mother talks like that in the house and my daddy and my sister and my grandmother.”

And so now they’re making these connections early. It may not have meaning, but they’re making the connections early. So now when they’re hearing a song and somebody, if they’re listening to Arianna or somebody and they say something that they know is deliberately Caribbean, they could pick up on it and seh, “Oh, mommy says that.” Ethan will come back and say, “I hear this song.” So they’re recognizing it. I think language is first for any anyone, but it’s music—and then language and food and music because dem affi eat di food. Sometimes dem nuh eat it, like “I don’t want that.” It’s really through music and dance. Depending on the child, for some it might be music, for some it might be food, but fi my pickney, mi know it is straight dancing. So I have to make sure I find all the dance videos. The thing about dancing for me, because mi used to coulda do a one move—the dancing now, a lot of it is like—there’s definitely ‘oman dance and y’ave man dance, and there’s dance in between that both can do. I don’t even want to go into the whole—but man dance are clearly dance whereas ‘oman if yuh ago do it, yuh in a sneakers an’ pants a do it. You can’t dress up and dance. So for my very active son, it’s Ding Dong style of dancing and maybe other people he’s exposed to over time. It fits better with his style, whereas with my daughter, she woulda look and seh, “I don’t know about all of that.” Which is what I personally would love to see in Dancehall, to kind of have a type a dance where me in a mi cute heels and dress can do without the extra over exerting myself, di way dat you did have Pepperseed. Yuh neva affi do it all di way but yuh can do a likkle dainty or yuh can do di Jerry Springer cute* wise, dem type a ting. Anyway, we did a go too far in a di culture. So really dance…

Mikelah: Yuh ah go bruk out di Angel dance soon.

Kerry-Ann: Yes, dance di Angel and di whole Signal Plane. Those little things that are very—because that’s also the way you incorporate parts of the audience, because some dance look very overwhelming for people. In a high school, I would be all the way on Genna Bounce, but now, lawd Jesas, mi too ol’ fi dat. But again, to your original point, dancing, music, and depending on the interest, there’s always food, adding modern flair to traditional cuisine—that type of thing. So I think there are different ways that your children can embrace the culture, but it depends on your child’s interest.

Mikelah: Yeah, I think I agree. I think, for me, music was probably the biggest influence in terms of me having that natural interest in my own culture. I remember my mom playing all kind of—she play Steel Pulse she play Bob Marley, Peter Tosh. She play everything. She play dub. I remember going to school for the first time and I’m like I didn’t know that there were other music cah ya drive in mommy cyar, yuh cya touch di radio. So I only…

Kerry-Ann: Hey, a you pay fa?

Mikelah: I only knew what was being played in the house, the different foods that we ate. I didn’t really—it wasn’t until I went to school that I kind of started to understand there are significant differences between what I have interests in and what other people have interests in. It kind of allowed me to even go a little bit deeper. I remember going to my first Beenie Man concert. comes out I remember hitting the Parkway for the first—yow, mi see Beenie Man—mek mi tell yuh…

Kerry-Ann: I love Beenie Man.

Mikelah: Dis a before Beenie Man have dreads. Afta Carlene—no. Mi remember a deh suh mi—I remember it distinctly because there’s this place in New Haven called Toad’s Place. I don’t even know if I technically should have been there, but it was open to everybody. Mi siddung right on di stage like to di side. Beenie Man had his hair slick in a one ponytail. Memba when di Jerry Curl did in and…

Kerry-Ann: Yeah, I remember that phase.

Mikelah: Di man have on a purple suit…

Kerry-Ann: Di nuff gyal in a bungle phase.

Mikelah: Yeah, wid di shoulder pads. Him have on him black pants, ledda shoes wid no socks. For me, I was just like—I was singing every song. I was just dancing and it was such—even my uncle, he played in a band. So I would see him and I had such an appreciation for music that I think that kind of was my gateway. So I totally understand in terms of the relations that you have, and you pick one. Some people are more into the food or the fashion or just being in that space. For me, even though I didn’t grow up in Jamaica, I always—when I go to Jamaica, I feel like that’s home for me. So it doesn’t feel like—mi nuh worry bout wah gwaan an’ dis and dat an’ watch weh ya—of course, yuh affi move certain way, don’t get me wrong. I step off the plane and I feel the air coming off when ya walk off a di airplane an’ go in a Manley.

Kerry-Ann: They don’t do that no more, but back in a di day, yes.

Mikelah: Back in the day, yeah. Even at that stage, it just feels like home for me. So I think that, yeah, that whole musical connection was my personal gateway into the culture. So mi see wid Ethan enuh. Him ago be a big danca. Big danca Ethan. I think it’s important to kind of have these conversations, especially outside of just expressing it during Caribbean American Heritage Month. It’s important to spend time understanding your culture, bringing it into your household, and making sure that outside of this one timeframe that you kind of do it continuously. I think it’s natural for us. So I’m staying naturally inquisitive, understanding the history, understanding how the different islands kind of interact with each other. I think it’s something, as I got older, that I really wanted to get to know and learn more about, because the culture in Jamaica is very different than the culture in Guyana and Trinidad—not that it’s very different, but there are a lot of different nuances in terms of how we interact. So carnival in Trinidad is definitely different than carnival in like St. Lucia. There’s a mash up happening now, but I think that that is because of the easier access to the inter-islands and social media and the internet, where you can literally see everything that is happening on other islands in an instant moment. I think it helps, but it’s also where you want to make sure that each island keeps their individuality and nuances of their own culture because that’s kind of what makes the Caribbean and different islands very spicy. Yuh keep it different.

Kerry-Ann: I agree. I think, for me, the importance that I’ve learned about Caribbean Heritage Month is I was born and raised in Jamaica. I went to high school. I left high school halfway through and then moved here. And then I went to high school here which was a completely different experience. I feel like my time at Wingate was just so—I mean it was my zone school and most immigrant kids who come up right before school start because that’s what the parents dem—they travel in the summer or right before school fi start so you can start school in time fi September. When that happens, you have to kind of pick your zone school to go. And so Wingate became the de facto zone school for anyone living in the Flatbush, East Flatbush area type, depending on where. Just that experience alone, having teachers from different islands. I remember Miss Sylvester was from Grenada, had Jamaican teachers and they would talk and it was important. There was one Jamaican teacher that know my mother. I cannot forget when I went to school to get my report card that my mother see him and seh, “Steve!” And him seh, “W’appen Marcia?…” Those things are just like really, really important to make that connection now. In Jamaican parties back then, you have a little Soca segment and your endurance could be that long. Now your endurance is a little longer because you know that you had a lot more people from other islands in the party, so the Soca segment tends to get a little longer or you went to Soca party. So the Jamaican now can endure and can do fi dem version a whining cause whining vary from island to island. It depends on fast wine, slow wine, and to which wine yuh deh wine.

Mikelah: Yuh right bout dat.

Kerry-Ann: Being in Brooklyn, it’s being in the northeastern corridor and experiencing Labor Day and all of these things that allows you to see the connectedness, but the uniqueness at the same time. Being on the islands, it’s much harder to see that because you’re surrounded by other Jamaicans. I know people travel to different islands, but it’s much harder to see when you’re on the island. It’s not until you come into like a bigger space where you can see how much the culture is important, how much of a powerful block or region we can be, but that’s for a whole different conversation. Culture a culture an’ wi culture sweet.

Mikelah: Wi might need fi come back and do a part two, but thank you so much. I appreciate you taking the time to chat wid di Style and Vibes fambily.

Kerry-Ann: Listen nuh, thank you for having me. I know I’m going to—I’m just going to insert myself in several episodes, so when yuh ready jus call mi. I’ll be happy to do it.

Mikelah: Of course, it’s always good having a great conversation. Thank you so much again and we’ll definitely do this again.

Kerry-Ann: A’right. Lata.

Mikelah: Bye.

It’s always great talking di tings dem wid Kerry yuh nuh. Sharing stories about Caribbean heritage comes so natural to both of us. It’s important that we stay up to di time culturally, while recognizing our rich history and keeping it going with the next generation. Thanks for listening. Do me a favor, leave an honest rating and review for the podcast in Apple podcast. It’s greatly appreciated and it will help the show rank in iTunes. We waan top ranking round ‘ere enuh.